Black Panther should have used far more subtitled dialogue if they had 'done it right' in my opinion as a nearly middle-aged, middle-class white guy who has no knowledge of the original Marvel comics... However, it could be (and it possibly was?) argued that that would have made the film less appealing to its key demographics. At least they kept some.

TBF, I’d lay that criticism at Hollywood in general rather than BP in particular.

Edit: JDP.

jdanielp wrote:

Black Panther should have used far more subtitled dialogue if they had 'done it right'

Why?

Diluted Dante wrote:

jdanielp wrote:

Black Panther should have used far more subtitled dialogue if they had 'done it right'

Why?

Well from my selfish perspective so that I would have been far more immersed in the film and not wondering why they used 'token' subtitles in one scene and English in another. They could've quite easily established an excuse for doing so such as English being a common language used between the different tribes (not a good excuse, but still).

Yossarian wrote:

I don’t think anyone disagrees with most of the cynicism, everyone knows that Disney is only doing this for the money, that doesn’t mean that it isn’t a positive thing too.

Do we really know that?

I'm sure profit is at the top of their agenda (where I guess it should be), but that doesn't mean there can't have other goals too. 

I'm sure some of the heavyweights involved, people like Feige, are not purely making these films for the money.

Disney would sell your grandmother.

I mean you're wrong, but sure.

Diluted Dante wrote:

I mean you're wrong, but sure.

That Black Panther is bad or that important work can suck? Because the latter is clearly true, as is the former no doubt.

It's all bollocks anyway cos Tyler Perry has been doing all black films for ages and they have more depth than BP

Just in case I am being obtuse:

Black led films have existed for ages. Black mega stars exist. I don't think anyone is denying that.

The reason people are talking about Black Panther is because it came out a week or two ago, so it gets a lot of traction, just like people went for a while talking about Get Out, or Moonlight when they were released, and 12 Years a Slave before that etc. 

Marvel films are frequently crummy, and yeah we've had Blade and Hancock before it, but denying BP is a watershed moment in some respects is disingenuous. I've not even seen it, it could be shit. I've seen black critics who have loved it and some who have hated it. It might be a flimsy excuse for a watershed film. But the superhero film is the biggest force in cinema in decades, and it's predominantly the reserve of the white person. 

For Black Panther to make this much money, to generate this much buzz, to be part of a huge ongoing series of films that are massive, in both audience and money, money and as everyone is keen to point out, a total blight on cinema... well it's pretty unarguably profound i'd say.

Perry even facilitated making the film, not just by carving a path of his own making through years of cinema, but by providing sets at his studio for Black Panther to be shot on. Regardless of whether it's shit or facile, it's happened and that's important.

Edit: i'd argue that maybe just a little bit of this comes from the current political climate too. You can't extricate this film from the fact it has come out in 2018.

jdanielp wrote:

They could've quite easily established an excuse for doing so such as English being a common language

In Vikings they often use subs when unilingual characters converse, else English for everyone.

I'm okay with that.

Somewhere, Spike Lee is grinding his teeth and thinking “I’ve been here for decades, and you fucking gimps reaches for Tyler Perry for an example?! Ffs”

So thick were the accents I felt like I was watching something actually minstrel-y.
For a product starring and captained by black people it was pretty jarring how hard it leant into every colonial McAfrica trope ever concoted.

A bunch of guys were literally done up and hollering like monkeys??!

Dark Soldier wrote:

Tempy wrote:

The difference between Perry's films and Black Panther and why the latter is being talked about as important is pretty obvious though. The discussion around BP doesn't preclude any prior films that are black led, written, starring, or produced.

Mate I did not expect you to bite on that. Stellar work. Perry's films are fucking terrible.

I thought you were arguing a point in good faith, as it's well known that Perry is incredibly successful. More fool me. This is why I shouldn't bother.

Brooks wrote:

So thick were the accents I felt like I was watching something actually minstrel-y. For a product starring and captained by black people it was pretty jarring how hard it leant into every colonial McAfrica trope ever concoted. A bunch of guys were literally done up and hollering like monkeys??!

3:30?