Star Trek - The Bear and Badger

g.man

Pfffft. Voyager took a good while to get to where it needed to be, but once it finally got there it was awesome.

EvilRedEye

I thought Voyager was pretty solid from Seasons 4 to 7. It's true the last couple of season finales were poor stories that ruined the Borg, if it weren't for those it would have stuck the landing. For all that Brandon Braga gets flack, I think Voyager would have had a more solid finish if he hadn't drifted off to showrun Enterprise (which ultimately he fucked up because he had to sort it from scratch while also being burnt out from Voyager).

Dinostar77

Voyager improved when Seven of Nine was introduced and coincidentally sales of andrex tissue went up at the same time. Lol.

Voyager definitely improved from season 4 to 7. However if Voyager was being made today, i think it would be more gritty and survivalist. The networks wanted a star trek show lighter in tone than the darkness of DS9 and they got it.

Diluted Dante

Time_on_my_hands wrote:

b0r1s wrote:

Best episode and most Trek like of this series. Away team mission, small simple story, well told, with some back on the ship character development. More of this please. And Burnham was suitably reserved.

Theory about the story arc

Spoiler:

Control isn’t gone. Could they all be in some weird simulation? (Hope not) The music that connects them reminds me of the music in BSG.

Spoiler:

There's obviously something weird going on, though I'm sure it's linked to the (rather heavy handed) theme of 'everything's better if we just get on' which has underpinned every story so far, though I do admit that the Trill episode approached this in a fairly original way. If this is a sim, it feels like they're jumping through hoops to prove that the Federation is beneficial.

Spoiler:

superflyninja

Liked this episode a lot actually. Nice to see mention of voyager, missed the uss nog reference. Also the admiral, isn't that the Medjai dude from The Mummy? I like him.
This felt like a proper Trek episode though so kudos for that. Yeah I think Control is still in the picture somewhere. Most likely with Detmer Cyborg face. They make such an obvious show of her zonking out and not being quite right.

I never did finish Voyager...not sure I can. Some of the cast were just too irritating. Kes and Neelix.....*vomits*. Not a huge fan of Janeway as a captain either. I disliked most of the crew tbh. I liked the Doctor though. And 7.

RedDave2

I second that crew assessment. It was definitely the because turn off for me for voyager. Jane way I didn't mind but the rest of the crew are absolutely dull as dish water. Given half of them are supposed to be marquis, they adopt to a handy federation lifestyle far too quick. The doctor carried the show until 7 of 9 appeared.

EvilRedEye

I feel like it was only DS9 that really nailed the larger ensemble of characters in the TNG production era. By the time we got to Enterprise, a lot of the main characters were just complete trash.

RedDave2

TNG isn't perfect but there's more variety and friction within the cast. And they feel unique for their time. Everyone on voyager felt so sedate. And I'd agree ds9 did the ensemble crew best and seeing as voyager came after that, it felt like a big step back

I don't think any show could work with the paint drying trio of Harry Kim, Paris and native American Ryker and yet they added kes and neelix in an attempt to spice things up.

superflyninja

Native American Riker does a huge disservice to Riker

I did really like Saru, but not as captain...he seems too weak. Plus it does feel a bit like Poochy at times. Where is Burnham? Oh she isn't here? Lets talk about Burnham. I refuse to call her Michael. Its stupid. Or am I stupid? Was it explained and I missed it?

EvilRedEye

"We've worked on a number of Bryan Fuller shows... 'Wonderfalls,' 'Pushing Daisies.' Many of his female protagonists have typically what you would call male names. Chuck was one. Jaye was another," Harberts said. "When we all sat down, of course, the idea was going to be that she was going to have a male name, or typically male name."

So what made it Michael? Harberts said he pitched the name after thinking of female columnist Michael Sneed, who writes for the Chicago Sun-Times, and The Bangles' bassist Michael Steele.

superflyninja

EvilRedEye wrote:

"We've worked on a number of Bryan Fuller shows... 'Wonderfalls,' 'Pushing Daisies.' Many of his female protagonists have typically what you would call male names. Chuck was one. Jaye was another," Harberts said. "When we all sat down, of course, the idea was going to be that she was going to have a male name, or typically male name." So what made it Michael? Harberts said he pitched the name after thinking of female columnist Michael Sneed, who writes for the Chicago Sun-Times, and The Bangles' bassist Michael Steele.

Thanks.

Were I not living in fear of the woke police Id say that's quite odd.

poprock

It is an odd name for a woman, and always jars a bit for me.

But then, My Stepdad was Leslie and I have an uncle called Kerry. Names can be all over the shop, really.

RedDave2

superflyninja wrote:

Native American Riker does a huge disservice to Riker I did really like Saru, but not as captain...he seems too weak. Plus it does feel a bit like Poochy at times. Where is Burnham? Oh she isn't here? Lets talk about Burnham. I refuse to call her Michael. Its stupid. Or am I stupid? Was it explained and I missed it?

Naming issue aside, I do agree (think I made a a similar point a few posts back). It stretches the shows credibility that she feels so central to everything that is going on. Being the lead is fine, no issues there but the way it is written it does have a poochy feel.

b0r1s

Another meh Discovery episode. I feel it is meandering and doesn't have a direction. Not good at all.

EvilRedEye

I think both this and Mandalorian are guilty of taking quite a few episodes to reveal much outside of the basic premise of the season that was already revealed in promo stuff. But Mando at least has the excuse that it's going for a Saturday adventure show vibe. A lot of these Discovery episodes are very generic action-packed semi-standalone stories that struggle to stand on their own feet while the serialised storyline glacially plods along in the background.

Dinostar77

b0r1s wrote:

Another meh Discovery episode. I feel it is meandering and doesn't have a direction. Not good at all.

Agreed. It needs "something", for DS9 and Voyager that was the introduction on screen of the Dominion and the Borg respectively. The series's improved dramatically from there on in. Discovery at moment its all about emotions and just meh. Saru as captain is just meh. Show could do with focusing on burnham less imo.

superflyninja

I thought this episode was ok. Nice to see Book back. But massive plot holes. How did Book know where star fleet hq was?
Admiral man listed some delivery missions. Discovery could literally complete them in minutes, while still maintaining contact with hq and this be ready to fight that emerald chain crowd whenever they wanted. Why does detaching the nacelles help?

EvilRedEye

The detached nacelles thing was a bit weird but I think the idea of it was that in Star Trek: Enterprise it's established that in the 29th Century, starships like the Enterprise-J had nacelles that were barely attached to the ship, so this is one step beyond that. Still daft though!

mannaboy

Average ep for sure, dragged further down by that appallingly done kiss scene. No feels felt.

poprock

That’s because despite all her over-emoting, Burnham has absolutely zero charisma.

mannaboy

Perhaps they’re going for realism based on a human being brought up by Vulcans, she doesn’t know how to act.

RedDave2

mannaboy wrote:

Perhaps they’re going for realism based on a human being brought up by Vulcans, she doesn’t know how to act.

Thats quite meta...

mannaboy

Ha, that’s what I was going for!

Time_on_my_hands

poprock wrote:

That’s because despite all her over-emoting, Burnham has absolutely zero charisma.

The target audience of young social media users will be able to identify with her.

poprock

Many a true word was spoken in jest.

superflyninja

mannaboy wrote:

Perhaps they’re going for realism based on a human being brought up by Vulcans, she doesn’t know how to act.

I don't blame the actress,it's shit writing. The emotion is unearned. Ya gotta build up a decent relationship with the audience too guys.
And yeah it was so funny, for all the over emoting the kiss was embarrassing, no emotion when it was actually needed

Diluted Dante

This felt like an episode that you can get away with in a 26 episode series, but not a 13 episode series

Raiziel

poprock wrote:

That’s because despite all her over-emoting, Burnham has absolutely zero charisma.

I have just started season 3 and this is a problem I’d almost forgotten about. She can overact with the best of ‘em, but the lady sure can’t act. If there isn’t strong support soon I’ll probably move on to something else.

EvilRedEye

I enjoyed today's episode. Except for...

Spoiler:

Time_on_my_hands

EvilRedEye wrote:

I enjoyed today's episode. Except for...

Spoiler:

Tilly being promoted to acting first officer, which just seems completely dumb tbh

Tilly now acts as though she's either in a different show, or in a Trek series where she's not a bridge officer. Not a good sign when ensigns like Nog and Kim inspire more confidence in their skills as senior officers.

Maybe it's just a sign of the times and modern sensibilities, but even Saru doesn't strike me as proper captain material in the traditional sense.

It reminds me of an analysis of why Trek is an attractive series for right-wingers. Despite socialist undertones to human society, much of Trek fetishises traditional militaristic values. This strikes me as at least one reason why this new Trek has its detractors.

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