GOTY 2012 - The Walking Dead - The Bear and Badger

dynamiteReady

Tempy wrote:

A great game needs many components IMO, or one true standout that puts it above others. Of course you then get a big messyÂ argumentÂ about 'what makes a game great' If your 'ludological bias' is true, then Bioshock 2 should be a better game than the first, but it isn't viewed as that by many because lack of story impact, redone setting etc... but the core game is much stronger in 2.Â Making it purely down to 'what plays better' or 'does it play well' removes all sorts of games from the running, andÂ emphasizesÂ certain genres over others. By this definition, Journey cannot compete as for all intents and purposes you push forward to win. It could be seen as less of a game than TWD...

True enough, but looking at your comment on Journey, I'd say that Journey is more of a "game", in that the player's action is the base of the player's experience of the game (grammar flail), but the draw of TWD is clearly in it's (admittedly fresh) writing.

Between you and Elf, I may yet be convinced by the title, but on first play, it's an interesting curio (to me), and even for what it is, it wasn't all that remarkable to me (Grim Fandango has spoilt me to high fuck, frankly).Â

But I won't discount that list... I probably need to play more games anyway... : P

hylian_elf

Tempy wrote:

Making it purely down to 'what plays better' or 'does it play well' removes all sorts of games from the running, andÂ emphasizesÂ certain genres over others. By this definition, Journey cannot compete as for all intents and purposes you push forward to win. It could be seen as less of a game than TWD, as at least you can die/make decisions.

I disagree, Journey plays better than TWD. I mean, you don't even play TWD much at all! Whereas in Journey, you have complete control from start to finish to play around. No win/lose state? Does not relate entirely to 'play'. Also, where does this 'push forward to win' come from? Pretty sure I did so much more than push forward. In fact, pretty sure there was a lot more of that in TWD. You know, just pushing in one direction or just pressing a button once and that's it.

Tempy

dynamiteReady wrote:

A great game needs many components IMO, or one true standout that puts it above others. Of course you then get a big messyÂ argumentÂ about 'what makes a game great' If your 'ludological bias' is true, then Bioshock 2 should be a better game than the first, but it isn't viewed as that by many because lack of story impact, redone setting etc... but the core game is much stronger in 2.Â Making it purely down to 'what plays better' or 'does it play well' removes all sorts of games from the running, andÂ emphasizesÂ certain genres over others. By this definition, Journey cannot compete as for all intents and purposes you push forward to win. It could be seen as less of a game than TWD...

True enough, but looking at your comment on Journey, I'd say that Journey is more of a "game", in that the player's action is the base of the player's experience of the game (grammar flail), but the draw of TWD is clearly in it's (admittedly fresh) writing. Between you and Elf, I might yet be convinced by the title, but on first play, it was an interesting curio, and even for what it is, it wasn't all that remarkable to me (Grim Fandango, anyone?).Â But I won't discount that list... I probably need to play more games anyway... : P

Episode 1 isn't that great, i'd happily say that if it wasn't for its deal status I wouldn't have bought it off the back off Episode 1 (@beano ?)

hylian_elf wrote:

Making it purely down to 'what plays better' or 'does it play well' removes all sorts of games from the running, andÂ emphasizesÂ certain genres over others. By this definition, Journey cannot compete as for all intents and purposes you push forward to win. It could be seen as less of a game than TWD, as at least you can die/make decisions.

I disagree, Journey plays better than TWD. I mean, you don't even play TWD much at all! Whereas in Journey, you have complete control from start to finish to play around. No win/lose state? Does not relate entirely to 'play'. Also, where does this 'push forward to win' come from? Pretty sure I did so much more than push forward. In fact, pretty sure there was a lot more of that in TWD. You know, just pushing in one direction or just pressing a button once and that's it.

I've not played Journey, I wasÂ merelyÂ using it and loose definitions of it cribbed from negative opinions to illustrate the tenuous nature of twoÂ piecesÂ of 'entertainment' that been released under the criteria of 'games' I think this is all balls btw. If you use a pad or interface to advance in some way, it is a game.

I'm merely rising to the bait, which is ludicrous bait IMO.

ChattinWithChet

Jesus Tempy is it a fucking game or not? Cause if this is a false erection I gotta spend it.

Tempy

Not a game.

hylian_elf

Healthy debate in between glorious levels of NSMBU is quite a fun Friday night.Â

Dynamite, all 5 episodes are gonna be expensive now if you're not convinced on TWD. Wait til the retail release and... rent it.

dynamiteReady

Tempy wrote:

Not a game.

ARGH!

@Elf - I'll try to kop the "game" somehow... episodes 1 & 2 at the very least.

yourfavouriteuncle

Chief wrote:

I'll be honest, I don't think TWD is a game in the truest sense, ...

This isn't aimed in any way at you chief but...

I don't want to get into the semantics of it all but I am getting a little perplexed by this general attitude. Of course it's a fucking game - I made a little cartoon man do stuff on my telly with my Xbox controller. What more do people fucking want? Â Oh, it's not really interactive is it? What, unlike every other fucking game I control by pressing buttons and waggling sticks? Â I might press the buttons a little less often and push forward on the left stick not quite as much as the fancy halo players but I was still playing and controlling a fucking game. Â Sheesh.

Also, what's happened to unlikely? Should someone go around to his flat and make sure there isn't 2 months worth of milk stood outside the front door and a strange smell coming from somewhere inside?

dynamiteReady

yourfavouriteuncle wrote:

Sheesh. Also, what's happened to unlikely?

Shacked up with Darthjim and Bombfrog, would you believe?

Player 1 cooks their meals...

hylian_elf

Yeah, but there's hardly much waggling or pressing of said controller. It's less gamey, but yes, still a game. Or whatever you want it to be, who cares, it was great.

ChattinWithChet

Tempy wrote:

Not a game.

FUCK!!! I take all my enjoyment back!

yourfavouriteuncle

dynamiteReady wrote:

yourfavouriteuncle wrote:

Sheesh. Also, what's happened to unlikely?

Shacked up with Darthjim and Bombfrog, would you believe? Player 1 cooks their meals...

Player 1? Â Those were the days. Â He was something else...

Really though, do we know if he's alright? Or did I miss a hissy fit and a messy split?

dynamiteReady

Dunno... there's a "lost forumite" thread knocking about... I'm sure someone else has asked the same thing....

Paul the sparky

Tempy wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

Tempy wrote:

Bit of a shan that PtD got in there to be honest, it was just a DLC pack as much as I love the game it just feels wiggidywhack voting for it.

I feel like a full on wank stain for agreeing with this statement.

Why? It's a legitimate point really. It didn't reinvent the game, it just added a bit of content.

Because seconds before I read the top ten I was thinking that anyone who complains about what gets into the top spots is a fucking wank stain. Then I saw PTD sitting there. It's DLfuckingC, not a game in its own right.

JonB reminded me that it was released this year on PC though, so I'm ok with it now. Just.

Moto70

I've got to order some flat-cut lettering soon...

...I have an idea brewing.

regmcfly

yourfavouriteuncle wrote:

dynamiteReady wrote:

yourfavouriteuncle wrote:

Sheesh. Also, what's happened to unlikely?

Shacked up with Darthjim and Bombfrog, would you believe? Player 1 cooks their meals...

Player 1? Â Those were the days. Â He was something else... Really though, do we know if he's alright? Or did I miss a hissy fit and a messy split?

He's still on Live.

mistercrayon

there seemed to be quite a lot of aggro in his direction shortly before he camera shed.

i think walking dead is an excellent game. what is a game? who gives a fuck. those tiny interactive mom
ents made me connected to the action on screen more than many a game or tv show. its enough of both to be accetable here. btw those who dont like classing on Â it as a game do you dislike monkey island being part of the game genre?

ChattinWithChet

what is a game? who gives a fuck.

Tempy

I prefer interactive entertainment medium

Mod74

It is a bit depressing that the reasons people cite for either TWD or Journey (loooser) being their GOTY can't be found in more gamey games.

Is this it then? Strong storytelling or emotional engagement are going to be the preserve titles that are little more than animated story books or tech demos?

ChattinWithChet

Tech demos that have strong storytelling and emotional engagement are not tech demos.

Tempy

Hopefully people see that you can engage in similar ways and stick those ideas in their games.

EvilRedEye

Journey could have had more gamey stuff in, it just didn't.

Mod74

ChattinWithChet wrote:

Tech demos that have strong storytelling and emotional engagement are not tech demos.

I wouldn't say they were games either.

Curtis

Mod74 wrote:

ChattinWithChet wrote:

Tech demos that have strong storytelling and emotional engagement are not tech demos.

I wouldn't say they were games either.

Isn't that the whole point? 'Games' in the traditional sense aren't adding anything new to the table.

Mod74

That could well be the point, which is why I find the wider landscape a bit depressing.

Curtis

Surely what's more depressing is the whole 'game' scene stagnating like it is?

People are looking side-ways (sometimes back; with retro styling etc), but never forward. Not that i have the answers of course.

ChattinWithChet

Mod74 wrote:

ChattinWithChet wrote:

Tech demos that have strong storytelling and emotional engagement are not tech demos.

I wouldn't say they were games either.

So what?

Mod74

Curtis wrote:

Surely what's more depressing is the whole 'game' scene stagnating like it is?

That is what I find depressing, did you think I meant something else?

I don't find TWD or Journey winning depressing. I enjoyed TWD (Not played J) a lot. TWD isn't in my top five because things like plot holes, bugs, a false/tricked sense of agency and kinda samey gameplay diluted it a bit for me.

If TWD could have kept its story, chracters, writing, emotional attachment/impact AND had gamey type things like actually being able to influence/branch the story then it would have romped into my top 2.

Mod74

ChattinWithChet wrote:

Mod74 wrote:

ChattinWithChet wrote:

Tech demos that have strong storytelling and emotional engagement are not tech demos.

I wouldn't say they were games either.

So what?

Is this where I quote you saying they're not just tech demos and write 'so what?' underneath?

They're more than tech demos and less than games. You're the one that took issue with my label.

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