Mod74 wrote:

Tech demos that have strong storytelling and emotional engagement are not tech demos.

I wouldn't say they were games either.

So what?

Is this where I quote you saying they're not just tech demos and write 'so what?' underneath? They're more than tech demos and less than games. You're the one that took issue with my label.

If they are fulfilling strong storytelling and emotional connection, I don't know why it matters that they aren't gamey enough. Some folks value one more than the other. I have yet to hear an argument here as to why one is the ideal.

I like not knowing.

MGS4 perfect example.

Seeming to have choice and having actual choice produce the same exact experience. So yeah, fool me please.

Either way. I am still winning.

Mod74 wrote:

Is this it then? Strong storytelling or emotional engagement are going to be the preserve titles that are little more than animated story books or tech demos?

I think as long as games are trying to tell stories in traditional ways then yes. But there are ways of telling stories through gameplay and world building, and there are some decent examples already, so hopefully more of that will happen. Emotional engagement can go along with that too.

Matt_82 wrote:

Are being able to influence and branch the story really 'gamey' things though?  Many devs claim their games to be branching but you always end up doing the same thing but with punching/cuddling someone at the end of the mission/game, depending on whether you chose the good side or the bad. I would say the 'gamey' thing was presenting the illusion of choice. I agree that TWD would have benefited from more repercussions but is it really any different to any other game in that regard?  '

What I would have liked, and what would have pushed it higher for me, were multiple endings and interactions that had meaningful differences.

I don't mean two dozen endings taking account of every minor decision. But three or even two variations. Give me some motivation to go back and make different decisions to produce different endings. Isn't replayability one of the things that marks something as a 'game' and getting the same ending regardless something that pushes it more towards interactive fiction?

Ignoring the ending I'd have liked if some of the interactions could have provided different results. Let's say I fail the motel raid. We might have had to make a run for it without the motorhome. Instead you get a fail screen and are told to do it again till you get it right. Pretty much every player controlled physical interaction goes that way. You fail and do it again till you don't fail.

The major major decision that decides your entire fate is completely taken out of your hands. That left a very bitter taste for me.

Hell, even some proper puzzles could have helped push it towards something more 'gamey'. There were some examples (like the drug store TV section or the farm generator) but they were very few and far between and seemed to dry up completely by 4 and 5.

I agree with a lot of what Mod said and even though what I got I am happy with I think that with these things in place TWD would have been one of the stand out games of all time...

Mod74 wrote:

Multiple endings and interactions that had meaningful differences. I don't mean two dozen endings taking account of every minor decision. But three or even two variations. Give me some motivation to go back and make different decisions to produce different endings. Isn't replayability one of the things that marks something as a 'game' and getting the same ending regardless something that pushes it more towards interactive fiction? Ignoring the ending I'd have liked if some of the interactions could have provided different results. Let's say I fail the motel raid. We might have had to make a run for it without the motorhome. Instead you get a fail screen and are told to do it again till you get it right. Pretty much every player controlled physical interaction goes that way. You fail and do it again till you don't fail. The major major decision that decides your entire fate is completely taken out of your hands. That left a very bitter taste for me. Hell, even some proper puzzles could have helped push it towards something more 'gamey'. There were some examples (like the drug store TV section or the farm generator) but they were very few and far between and seemed to dry up completely by 4 and 5.

I am not bothered about having replayability (I can YouTube any alternative endings) but I would have liked for all of us to have had different games. I'd have liked something this story driven to have had different endings though I realise that for this to happen would have taken so much work...

RasDam wrote:

I'm pretty sure I've read/heard similar complaints about games that no one on here would argue wasn't a game.

Maybe, but they probably didn't set their stall out by saying this is YOUR story, every decision will have CONSEQUENCE.

The decisions don't have consequence, they're essentially moot.

"Clem will remember this". Clem might but the game doesn't. Except when they're being reeled back to you at the end like some greatest hits package.

I know it sounds like I'm being overly harsh, but there were a lot of things that could have been done a lot better.

I just wanted to say that all of you who voted for Hotline Miami are delusional. FEZ FOR TOP TEN

WorKid wrote:

I'm downloading Fez now.

YES

.

iPad seems the ideal version, for all that tap tap nonsense.

It's fine, it's the one I finished it on. I found it far better suited to all the tapping than the PS3 version I've got, made it quite easy though. 

Can't remember how much it was, but probably the cheapest version I'd have thought.

I assumed at some point the discussion merged from Fez to TWD without people explicitly saying so.

personally i think a game like walking dead should be played once only. your choices and the results should be a thing in andof themselves a replay to see how it could have been different is akin to wanting to know how a magician does his stuff. the game is fun in its playthrough and grippng throughout once and once only.