Society's Ills - A study in the perceived inequalities between the "haves" and the "have nots" - The Bear and Badger

mk64

Yossarian wrote:

Interesting read on the psychological effect of success.

It's quite long, but definitely worth a read, particularly if you're Griff or MK.

I've never read som much shit in my life. If the game had started with Tshirt having Â£2000 and getting Â£200 for passing go while glasses starts with Â£1000 and gets Â£100 initially but the Â£200 if and when he gets to Â£2000 then that's a reflection of how I see it. Both players get two dice to start with. Also the analogy is fucked because its about a game where there is a winner and a loser. Where one person can only win by bankrupting the other player. That's not how life works where both players can survive indefinitely on a comfortable footing.

Creating impossible situations and saying that's real life is bs.

Maybe glasses is secretly a hypnotist and could hypnotise Tshirt into giving him the reds.

Yossarian

Did you read beyond the first paragraph?

Skerret

Yossarian wrote:

Interesting read on the psychological effect of success. It's quite long, but definitely worth a read, particularly if you're Griff.

Yossarian

Yossarian wrote:

Did you read beyond the first paragraph?

I'll take that as a 'no' then. There's a shitload of evidence in there, dismissing it because of one example given near the start is pretty rubbish, but also further evidence of the inbuilt psychological bias you have towards your whole nonsense 'anyone can be successful if they want' shtick. You aren't even willing to consider stuff like this because it might have to make you face up to the fact that, despite your undoubted hard work and ability, luck plays a very large role in where you've ended up in life.

Brooks

There's no argument to have here anymore. Having narrowed down the bootstrappers to a). Griff, who will acknowledge someone's made a good point and then carry on regardless and b). Kart, who is barely literate. If there was some hardass data to digest that'd help.

Dark Soldier

Has Yoss developed schizophrenia?

Skerret

I've enjoyed it.

Edit: not Yoss' being schizo, obviously that's tragic. Â Of course had heÂ worked harder and chosen differently he'd no doubt be in fine mental health but sadly it's his own fault.

mk64

You create your own luck. Not being defeatist and negative proves that.

Did you read the last paragraph where the "evidence" is essentially created to reinforce his left wing ideology?

Credible evidence noting rich people as having "arsehole" behaviour traits.

Yoss, if you want some life advice i'll happily give it to you over a beer. Brooks tries to undermine my empirical evidence by saying it doesn't reflect the macro societal trends. No, i'm not saying it does, i'm saying that if people are prepared to working fucking hard then they can achieve alot more than what they currently are. Just depends on what your priorities are and what makes you happy.

'Code spends 20 euros a week on food and drink. I spent 20 euros on my main course yesterday for lunch. He's seemingly happy with his set up and i'm seemingly happy with mine. If at any point he wants to change to a 20 euro main course then he's going to have to change his ideology and gameplan. He's what would be considered in the macro statistic of poor/poverty and yet chooses to live that way quite happily.

You aren't homeless, you aren't poor. Just because you dont own your house doesn't mean your life has to be any worse that someone who owns 10 and drinks crystal for breakfast.

Skerret

wat

Dark Soldier

Tell me then, mk, how I created my own luck by ending up with chronic arthritis in both knees which basically hindered any dreams I had of the line of work I fancied?

Skerret

It's your own fault and you know it. Â Work harder Cripplesby.

Brooks

Equinox Code are you particularly happy with having to make 20 euros last a week for food and beverages?

"he's seemingly happy" yes because the one reality we've definitely established thanks to this thread is the height of your powers of insight.

Dark Soldier

Skerret wrote:

It's your own fault and you know it. Â Work harder Cripplesby.

Which is exactly why I don't do the lottery.

[Deleted User]

i'm saying that if people are prepared to working fucking hard then they can achieve alot more than what they currently are.

That is true but everyone will have a ceiling where no amount of hard work can result in further progress.Â
What about the people who have struggled, strived and worked fucking hard and still can't get a salary that would allow them to do things like purchase a house?
Then there are the people who have done fuck all with their life other than leech off others, yet could buy a yacht tomorrow.

That is the point, hard work doesn't directly equate to success in our society, it helps but it isn't the be all and end all.

mk64

Dark Soldier wrote:

Tell me then, mk, how I created my own luck by ending up with chronic arthritis in both knees which basically hindered any dreams I had of the line of work I fancied?

Maybe you were destined for worse but you are lucky in that you only have chronic arthritis.

Perhaps you want to blame rich people for your health issues which are seemingly stopping you from your dream job?

In your case DS, if you have physical issues then becoming a footballer is out of the question - yes. So no, you can't have your "dream job" and my point is that exactly. People need to be realistic as to what they can achieve or expect to achieve. "Dream job" is almost impossible for 99% of people, even the wealthy.

Brooks

Perhaps you want to blame rich people for your health issues which are seemingly stopping you from your dream job?

Good fucking grief.

[Deleted User]

Maybe you were destined for worse but you are lucky in that you only have chronic arthritis.

That is bull shit of the highest order.

Let us all sit around and be thankful we only have one major, crippling condition.

Dark Soldier

mk64 wrote:

Dark Soldier wrote:

Tell me then, mk, how I created my own luck by ending up with chronic arthritis in both knees which basically hindered any dreams I had of the line of work I fancied?

Maybe you were destined for worse but you are lucky in that you only have chronic arthritis. Perhaps you want to blame rich people for your health issues which are seemingly stopping you from your dream job? In your case DS, if you have physical issues then becoming a footballer is out of the question - yes. So no, you can't have your "dream job" and my point is that exactly. People need to be realistic as to what they can achieve or expect to achieve. "Dream job" is almost impossible for 99% of people, even the wealthy.

My dream job, at that age, was to lay tarmac. LOFTY DREAMS.

And sure, I'll blame rich people, why not. That was heavily implied in my first post.

mk64

Liveinadive wrote:

i'm saying that if people are prepared to working fucking hard then they can achieve alot more than what they currently are.

That is true but everyone will have a ceiling where no amount of hard work can result in further progress.Â
What about the people who have struggled, strived and worked fucking hard and still can't get a salary that would allow them to do things like purchase a house?
Then there are the people who have done fuck all with their life other than leech off others, yet could buy a yacht tomorrow.

That is the point, hard work doesn't directly equate to success in our society, it helps but it isn't the be all and end all.

These people - and there are alot of them, then need to retrain for jobs which pay more money. Its not an overnight thing but its what they would need to do.

I'm not saying that if you work 9-8pm every day in a fish factory 7 days a week that you will be able to own a house in mayfair. I'm saying that if they worked hard for a few years and job searched they could probably step up, and 5-10 years later do the same. Eventually they would be able to buy a house, maybe not mayfair but somewhere.

monkey

mk64 wrote:

Maybe you were destined for worse but you are lucky in that you only have chronic arthritis.

Perhaps you want to blame rich people for your health issues which are seemingly stopping you from your dream job?

Holy crap.

Skerret

This 'hard work' rhetoric is tiresome. Â Quantify hard work. Â Is it working more? Â More effectively? Â Beyond your remit? Â Attracting the notice of influential types? Â Taking credit for the work of others to get a leg up? Â Pursuing self-education? Â All of these?

Brooks

In his absence, I'll say a thing for the Minse - consistently reliable instincts.

mk64

I'm not making the link between the topic of conversation and what DS is implying about how health issues are stopping him from getting the job he wanted.

I'm implying he's off topic. Nothing more.

mk64

skerret, read my previous posts. I have already said its a number of factors (and listed just a few), not just hard work. Thats the minimum.

monkey

mk64 wrote:

I'm saying that if they worked hard for a few years and job searched they could probably step up, and 5-10 years later do the same. Eventually they would be able to buy a house, maybe not mayfair but somewhere.

Holy crap.

[Deleted User]

These people - and there are alot of them, then need to retrain for jobs which pay more money. Its not an overnight thing but its what they would need to do.

Is that really realistic though? or even fair? Why should one career choice be paid significantly more than another of equal skill?

Yes a brain surgeon should be paid more than a bin man but why are bankers paid more than programmers who are paid more than engineers?

Skerret

monkey wrote:

mk64 wrote:

Maybe you were destined for worse but you are lucky in that you only have chronic arthritis. Perhaps you want to blame rich people for your health issues which are seemingly stopping you from your dream job?

Holy crap.

Sweet microwave jesus.

Tempy

Hello thread

Skerret

mk64 wrote:

skerret, read my previous posts. I have already said its a number of factors (and listed just a few), not just hard work. Thats the minimum.

I have, very carefully.

Skerret

Tempy wrote:

Hello thread

HALLO

YES, THIS IS THREAD

Howdy, Stranger!

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