The MCU Spoiler Thread ('free' on Disney+ UK pace) - The Bear and Badger

Rev

I liked it. I'm hopeful for Loki as I think it will be bat shit fun.
It was a fun costumed romp which served to make Sam Captain America and I was here for it.

regmcfly

Is that what the end result is? I'm not going to watch it just basically because of the time/baby stuff but I was looking for a wee quick wrap up of how it affects the world that's not "fuck knows, it was shit".

If it is that Sam is now Cap, that's set me up for whatever is next. We did watch all of Wanda because the vibe of that was very much what me and Fisher wanted and she was already full into the comics of Wandavision. I think we will try to find time for Loki because we like TH, but it still looks like the ultimate Angel knock-off.

regmcfly

Too many Wolfram and Hart vibes from that trailer

RedDave2

Very much sat in the middle with Falcon and Cap series.

Lots of downer points - the poor casting of the Riley character. The pure bare minimum thought put into the concept of both the Flag Smashers and the GRC (both needed the show to be more complex and less goodie vs baddie), the lack of a credible bad guy and the un-needed plots with Zemo and Power Broker. Both added more stodge to an already over blown cake.

But there were good points - I really like Anthony Mackie in this. He is definitely the guy to have being the morale compass for the new avengers. Not sure if I've seen him in any other non-marvel stuff but he carries his role very well. I like that his promotion to being cap was earned (although the show doesnt do it well - people are cheering him from the helicopter rescue onwards so his speech doesnt reflect anyone not wanting him to be the new Cap) US Agent was also an interesting character. Had he been given both the time to show him as a genuine good guy and his transition to something else and also if they had made him more dangerous (he came across as a low rent Z tier character by the end) than I think Wyatt Russell could have done some good. I certainly thought he did his best.

Equally the plot around the forgotten Isaiah could have been very intriguing but its not got enough time to breath and the resolution is so flippant. Falcon goes from can't get a bank loan to gets the US government to acknowledge Isaiah and also erect a display honouring him in double quick time.

And this sums up the big probs I have with the show. There are big targets for what they seemed to want to do with the plot but I dont think 6 episodes was ever going to give them enough time. Its a rare comment to make but this could have been a 10 episode series with enough time given over to each part and not have them all cramped in on top of each other.

So thumbs in the middle. Leaning to down. Week to week it kept me going but its very much a waste of some interesting moments in the overall marvel universe.

As for the boat - I took this to be a metaphor for Americas Past. You can let it drag you down but getting rid of it isn't the option either. You have to fix things to move on.

b0r1s

I enjoyed Mackie in Altered Carbon. Better than the first season guy.

regmcfly

Oh I liked Joel Edgerton

superflyninja

Yeah pretty on the money Dave. Another big let down for me were the fights. They were unimaginative and poorly executed. A group of super soldiers fighting should have been an awesome spectacle. It wasn't. Not by any stretch of the imagination

poprock

b0r1s wrote:

I enjoyed Mackie in Altered Carbon. Better than the first season guy.

I completely disagree with you there.

pantyfire

It was alright.
I get a bit miffed at inconsistencies in these things re powers and weapons.
Cap As shield has taken and was completely unfazed by a mega strike from Mjolnir then some Frenchy kicks a chair at it and knocks it out of the air. Wtf.
Sam can embed the shield in a tree but then tried it in someone’s face and they just shrug it off.

Spoiler
Also, when Sam saves the police truck. The force required to push that truck back up to the ledge would crush Sam between his jets and the truck itself. Usually we get around physics by waving a hand and saying superhuman stuff, but theyve been making a big deal about Sam being human.
So no mcguffin to fall back on here.

Diluted Dante

Except the Wakandan built suit he's wearing.

MattyJ

Well I'll go against the majority here and say I enjoyed the whole thing. Didn't have an issue with who everyone was, understood the motivations of the Flag Smashers (but they weren't played up/explained enough), and thought the majority of acting was great.

Some of the fight scenes were pretty rote, and Bucky is a shockingly shit fighter considering he's been doing it for 100+ years, but the scenes where Falcon's wings are helping him out are cool.

It could've been better for sure, but I still liked it.

g.man

Diluted Dante wrote:

Except the Wakandan built suit he's wearing.

Looked like it came from Poundland to me.

superflyninja

Yeah I didnt like the suit tbh.
Agree also with that truck bit, he would have been crushed. It even showed him straining to push it back. Nawh this one was a dud. Im going to say that both Marvel series so far missed the mark. Wandavision was much, much better. But it never went full Twin Peaks weird, didnt get crazy enough. In a way, it was quite a mundane plot when you think about it (for half a second).
So the power thing irked in Sam N Bucky. Winter Soldier is probably the most combat-experienced human on the planet. And is a super soldier. Compare that to Ginger Nuts. She is a teenage (apparently) super soldier. So her fighting Bucky, both super serum's cancel each other out, so effectively its a ripped war veteran versus a quite inexperienced teenager. Bucky should have taken her down in seconds. Before anyone kicks off, Im not being a toxic fanboy, Im simply looking at a thing and saying its bullshit. Yeah, ok you might say, oh grow up its just superhero tv stuff. But can the writers not just tweak things to make it more palatable? Like I dunno, Ginger Nuts group works as a collective, strength in numbers. Could that not be worked in? She is never solo. At least then its a bit more believable.

I really like Loki, I do hope they dont fuck it up.

poprock

Loki looks much more my kind of thing. Charismatic, sarcastic lead character in a time travel plot led by a comically bureaucratic secret organisation. The Zero Theorem, Legion, Umbrella Academy, The Adjustment Bureau, etc etc. Here’s hoping.

LivDiv

Thats a good point Matty.
What is the standard of super serum?

The one Steve took change him from a scrawny dweeb into tall muscles. I think the pinnacle of man is supposed to be it.
Presumably the one Bucky had took him to that same level because him and Cap are equally matched in a fight in The Winter Soldier.

Freckles took a knock off serum so its reasonable that it wouldn't be as good so that explains why she isn't played by Ronda Rousy instead. Yet she again is a perfect match for Bucky. Where does that leave Harry Kane?

Diluted Dante

Looking to get a transfer to a team in Europe?

EvilRedEye

They mention explicitly in dialogue that the new version of the serum doesn't make people look all jacked like what happened with the old version Steve took.

LivDiv

So its a completely different thing then.

How does it actually make them stronger if it doesn't increase muscle?

Diluted Dante

A wizard did it.

pantyfire

The same way a canvas suit that doesn’t fit properly, and makes your ears stick comically, can stop you being crushed between a jet engine and a loaded, armoured truck.

LivDiv

Diluted Dante wrote:

A wizard did it.

You joke but I am a bit worried about Marvel going down this route.

Frosty

I mean the amount of muscle Steve has for his level of strength if we're going down that route is also not realistic.

LivDiv

Sure but I think the fact there is a change tells that story. Then the fact there is no change tells the opposite.

I don't understand how the serum in this works within the internal logic of the MCU.

"It doesn't do that" begs the question of what else it doesn't do, it's different but conveniently only in the way that allows them to cast non-muscle actors.
There is a whole speech in the show about how the serum makes the person more that person, brave becomes braver, selfish becomes more selfish etc. That goes out the window though because the serum in this doesn't have the same effects on muscle gain so could be different in any other number of ways.

Frosty

I dunno, I feel like the show explained it fine in that Madripoor episode so I didn't really have a problem with it. It was designed to be "better", I can't remember the exact quote though.

What I did find a bit hard to buy into is that all the flag smashers are really good at fighting. Just because you have super strenght doesn't make you good at fighting and actual trained fighters like Falcon, Bucky and bad cap should be able to take them becuase they have years and years of training and experience fighting people. The flag smashers are just some gap year students.

Diluted Dante

Yeah, this is something that's rarely gone into. They did an interesting arc in Spider-Man where he made a device that took out his spider-sense (by accident). It's at this point that he realised that he had relied on it for years when fighting, and retrospectively gives us a reason that a 15 year old kid with no combat training was able to take on actual fighters.

So he then trains with Shang Chi, and they develop a martial art called Way of the Spider, and when his spider-sense returns, he's an even better fighter. In the MCU, I think he's not got it back yet since he returned, and we're getting a Shang Chi film, so can we have a Spider-Man learns Kung Fu film please?

EvilRedEye

Wasn't the whole of Spider-Man: Far From Home about developing his spidey-sense?

Diluted Dante

Ah yeah. Well not exactly, but after the talk in the plane with Happy he learns to trust himself and his powers, and he can use it to know where Mysterio is in the last fight.

Still, you could make something from that that still gives me Spider-Fu.

LivDiv

As they seem to be going down the freaky, magic, multiverse mystery stuff anyway I wouldn't mind seeing some Madame Web stuff.

Diluted Dante

If Sony think they can make a movie out of it, it will probably happen.

The recent Spiderverse stuff was great. Anything that gives me Spider-Gwen I'll take tbh.

LivDiv

Intriguing.
I thought Venom was alright so might be good to see Hardy Venom come back.

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