The Next Next Gen Thread o/\o - The Bear and Badger

mistercrayon

It feels like to me they’re damned if they do and Damned if they don’t. If they make series x a hard brake then people will be cheesed off with buying a console now- The eventual thing is that the current one x will be the base (it’s a monster anyway) and they’ll move smoothly on with “Xbox” being a continuum.

It’s interesting that the logic goes back towards making original Xbox games backward compatible.

My feeling - I don’t really know for sure -is that the majority of processing can be applied to graphics you stuff - calculations for raytracing etc so that would split the difference between the new stuff being able to focus on what appear to be the bells and whistles layer.

EvilRedEye

Paul the sparky wrote:

It's just feeling like the start of last gen, when people were happy with their PS360 and wondering what the next gen can bring to the table that couldn't be done on the current systems.

This somewhat doesn't doesn't match with my recollections? Like yes, there were some great late games last gen like The Last of Us and the current gen look bloody ages to get going so in some respects there wasn't a mega-urgency to move over but people were gagging for new hardware after a long, long gen. And the transition will almost certainly be much better managed this time.

GurtTractor

I don't know about specific games in development right now, but there are plenty on the PC that just wouldn't work on consoles, at least not at a playable level. If you look at this gen and games such as Destiny 2 or the Just Causes you can see how the current hardware has struggled a bit, the devs for D2 came out and explained that they chose 30FPS on consoles because the CPU power was inadequate.

Games with a lot of physics going on are a great example of when you really need a capable CPU, I think that's an area where you would see a very clear difference between generations. Things like AI too perhaps, though that's more subtle.

Bob

Paul the sparky wrote:

Did you not buy a PS4 Pro?

My wife bought me one.. but I knew what I was getting, I wasn't expecting a new console.

I think this will muddy the waters for people who aren't in the know.. it's like Wii U. It's not clear it's a new thing.

b0r1s

mistercrayon wrote:

It feels like to me they’re damned if they do and Damned if they don’t. If they make series x a hard brake then people will be cheesed off with buying a console now- The eventual thing is that the current one x will be the base (it’s a monster anyway) and they’ll move smoothly on with “Xbox” being a continuum.

It’s interesting that the logic goes back towards making original Xbox games backward compatible.

It’s not the same though. No one is asking for a hard break and they have proved with the One that they can do back compat well. So that should be more of the same.

This is the equivalent of launching the One and keeping all the games compatible with the 360 for two years which just doesn’t make any sense.

EvilRedEye

Maybe the big shooting in the foot for Xbox is not having a clear plan or communication for the sunsetting of older models, both generally and for individual games. The model names are all X Xbox X X and whatever. Base Xbox One and Xbox One X weren't planned to be part of a rolling platform and there's an expectation of cross compatibility.

I think there's room for having a kind of iPad model of gradual hardware increments and then software support eventually fading out but how do you manage that with boxed software and clearly communicate what software works with what hardware? And the base Xbox One makes it difficult to start that right now.

GurtTractor

Update January 10th, 6:50PM ET: Clarified that Microsoft is referring to first-party games published under Xbox Game Studios, and not all games on the Xbox platform.

GurtTractor

Still a curious move from MS. From the leaked specs, the die size, and the size of the housing it looks like it will be a fairly high end machine for a console, and probably quite expensive at that, at least for the top SKU version. At such a cost and with possibly hampered first party exclusives it might make going for a similarly priced PC seem more attractive to many people..

bad_hair_day

Or smash the piggy bank and go PCVR. The TV screen seems just so...limited now.

tigersgogrrr

Quite content for Halo, Gears, Fable et al to be quite traditional in most ways, but with thunderbastard graphics, great frame rate and quicker loading times.

GooberTheHat

GurtTractor wrote:

Update January 10th, 6:50PM ET: Clarified that Microsoft is referring to first-party games published under Xbox Game Studios, and not all games on the Xbox platform.

GooberTheHat wrote:

It's just Microsoft saying their in house games will be Microsoft platform exclusive, rather than Xbox SX exclusive isn't it? I don't really see a problem with that.

GurtTractor

Aye I speed read past stuff again, soz.

JonB

Diluted Dante wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

It's just Microsoft saying their in house games will be Microsoft platform exclusive, rather than Xbox SX exclusive isn't it? I don't really see a problem with that.

My understanding is its not going to be that there is an Xbox One disc and a Series X disc. There will be one disc, that you can put in either console and it will work.

Sold next to discs from other publishers that only work on one machine, presumably. Sounds potentially confusing.

But mostly I don't like the idea that, say, Halo: Infinite isn't doing anything that a current gen machine could do, albeit with poorer performance. It seems unambitious. We're already at a stage where AAA games are struggling on base consoles, so why bother?

On the other hand, I don't currently have an MS machine, so it's not like I'll be able to play these games without buying something new. If they can convince me they're worth playing.

LivDiv

I think in reality there won't be all that much that is really pushing the CPU in the first 1-2 years anyway.
The last 2 gens early on were full of cross gen releases, HD remakes and games that really only pushed the GPU.

Look at the launch games this gen. Fucking Ryse and Krank when a few months prior GTAV came out on the 360 and PS3.

Spiderman might be a good example of where CPUs were pushed but it came out 5 years after the PS4, that would be long into Series X exclusive territory.

Alternatively if you look at the positives. Players will be able to continue to play the games they already do, without having the old console set up or even keeping hold of it. With the people they always played with whether they have upgraded yet or not or if the developer makes the game cross gen or not.

When will Fortnite be launched on PS5? Or FIFA, CoD, Apex Legends and all the other on going games people play. How much will it cost to get these new PS5 versions and where free 2 play will everything cross over seemlessly?
When will Cyberpunk come out on PS5, many people want to wait for the best version of that on new consoles, it will be day on Xbox because they can just play the XboX One version.

Bob

LivDiv wrote:

When will Cyberpunk come out on PS5, many people want to wait for the best version of that on new consoles, it will be day on Xbox because they can just play the XboX One version.

imma gunna wait for the switch port.

RedDave2

This is silly surely? Why upgrade at all as an early adaptor if there isn't something to show off what you paid for.

Having some games work across all x box? That's fine, but I'd be hoping there was a few games that simply couldn't work on a bone to justify a new console. This approach surely impacts game design as well so in a way its taken away from the likes of halo infinite.

LivDiv

Well the graphics and framerate will be considerably better, which is what 99% of people want.

poprock

Like it or not, this is the way most tech is going. Why shouldn’t games consoles evolve the same way computers and mobile phones do?

We just haven’t been doing consoles this way for long enough yet to see older ones be officially reach ‘unsupported’ age. It’ll happen, and it’ll probably be the Xbox One S that is obsoleted first.

GurtTractor

It's hard to say with any certainty if this will actually affect games for the next few years, it could well be that most devs don't have much that's super ambitious planned anyway, in which case the graphics can be scaled easily enough between platforms.

monkey

It does seem a weird move. Most marketing is always full of guff that this new console takes games to a whole new level. Never before possible features. Now they’re effectively saying Yeah it’s just graphics stuff. Is it really worth the extra console sales on the Bone between now and the end of the year to hamper the next console in this way.

And then at some point midway through, the new games will stop working anyway. Their console labelling is now already confusing enough without chucking time-limited cross compatibility with their previous flop.

LivDiv

poprock wrote:

Like it or not, this is the way most tech is going. Why shouldn’t games consoles evolve the same way computers and mobile phones do? We just haven’t been doing consoles this way for long enough yet to see older ones be officially reach ‘unsupported’ age. It’ll happen, and it’ll probably be the Xbox One S that is obsoleted first.

So much this.
Having a cliff edge every 5-10 years is nonsensical. It bullies consumers into an upgrade they may not be ready for and for manufacturers involves a massive gamble.

monkey

Broadly it probably doesn’t matter anyway. Like Liv says, the first year or two isn’t where the upgraded power properly comes through. Maybe they’re just prioritising getting as wide an audience / install base for their games as possible. That then attracts devs to the platform, more games, more sales, that attracts devs and so on.

monkey

What’s better for eg Halo at this point? Tens of Millions of people can play it or just the couple of million that early adopt a new console. What’s better at getting the word of mouth out there to cut through against the competition?

LivDiv

monkey wrote:

Most marketing is always full of guff that this new console takes games to a whole new level. Never before possible features.

Which has nearly always been exactly that, utter guff.
It is a sharard that has had it's day because the likes of Digital Foundry will have a video up that afternoon debunking it.

MattyJ

Microsoft have been pushing the message of 'buy once'. If you buy halo infinite on the Xbox one, when you get a series x you will just be able to play it, no additional costs. Whether that's digital or physical.

Presumably that will work for PC as well, like it does at the moment if you buy games like forza. I think the aim for Microsoft is to encourage adoption of the new platform, no need to wait a year for a bunch of games to make it worth buying the new machine, all your current games will work and be enhanced.

EvilRedEye

I think there's two things:
* They didn't lay the groundwork for this with Xbox One X and it's not clear whether retiring the base Xbox One only is possible or, if possible, how this would be effectively managed. Effectively you've a cliffedge to the rear as two models have been tied together.
* There's no need to commit to porting new software to the older hardware, it could have been done on a case by case basis.

I don't think there's a problem with the mobile phone model, I think the problem is trying to carry the last traditional console along for the ride just because it had a mid-gen upgrade.

b0r1s

Fuck this nonsense rational talk. If I’m paying £500 I want something to show it off. Not something a little bit better than what my X can do.

LivDiv

b0r1s wrote:

Fuck this nonsense rational talk. If I’m paying £500 I want something to show it off. Not something a little bit better than what my X can do.

Prepare for disappointment.
Including if you buy a PS5.

Tech hasn't moved that far in 3 years, especially at that price point.

I_R

Lets face it, all the best paid devs are spending their time thinking about upgrade systems, loot boxes, micro-transactions and the grind, huge graphical leaps forward are a bit 2010's.

RedDave2

Yeah, but I don't want last gen loot boxes, I want next gen loot boxes for my shiny new consoles.

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