The Next Next Gen Thread o/\o - The Bear and Badger

Paul the sparky

b0r1s wrote:

Upgraded to Pro

Never bought the One but bought the X as I got it very cheap (selling my 4K player it cost me about £100).

So you're ok with upgrading to play the same games slightly (very slightly when we're talking the jump from base PS4 to Pro, it must be the smallest jump between two consoles ever) improved. So I'm not sure what yours or Bob's issue is here.

Like, "I only buy consoles if they have something revolutionary that literally can't be done until now" doesn't apply to you.

Diluted Dante

I'm still rocking base models.

Wookienopants

Diluted Dante wrote:

I'm still rocking base models.

Same.
So I’ll be upgrading to a Series X on launch as I’ve missed every upgrade so far

Paul the sparky

Aye, same. The jump will be real.

Wookienopants

However I’m slightly concerned that I won’t notice that much as I don’t have a tv capable of anything more advanced than 1080p

RedDave2

Paul the sparky wrote:

Depends why you want to buy a new console I guess. Why do you buy new consoles? Did you upgrade to a Pro/X from the base models too Boris?

I would say its different for everyone but surely a big thing is to play the latest thing. If there is no special reason to move up, people may well just go with the ps5. Why pay full price for a series X if there is nothing on it you cant already play? Just wait til it is discounted.

And while I get the point being made about the X and PS4 Pro, these machines came out midway in the lifespan of the consoles. The Xbox one was 3 years old when the X came out and both are still classed as 8th gen. This is the start of the 9th gen so its a bit different. Its completely possibly this will be the final "gen" for consoles and the updated model will be where we go from here, whether its playstation or xbox, but I kinda think MS would be better making that point from this model on - i.e. the Series X is the start of a console eco system that is like windows 10. Its a service and will be always updatating (in this case in both tech and software)

The other side is that maybe MS reckon they wont win a hardware war with Sony regardless and are putting their eggs in the basket of Gamepass and the value in just having a MS account is the real money maker for them.

EvilRedEye

It could be that Sony don't release anything of massive interest relevant to this discussion in the first two years of next gen or it could be that Sony cooks up some fantastic mega exclusive only-possible-on-PS5 game that ends up being more popular than Minecraft and Fortnite put together and results in them stealing marketshare from Microsoft. It's just that by adopting this as a strategy, Microsoft open themselves up to the possibility.

There is a bit of a danger in trying to see the future in the previous transition in that it assumes nobody has learned anything about getting software out in year 1. We can see from Wii U/3DS and Switch that platform holders can get their act together on that.

Paul the sparky

@Wooks That's why I've been thinking about a monitor. Need to see how these new machines run things, what frame rates they're going to have etc.

EvilRedEye

There should be a noticable difference in image quality at 1080p between base and X, never mind Series X.

b0r1s

Paul the sparky wrote:

b0r1s wrote:

Upgraded to Pro

Never bought the One but bought the X as I got it very cheap (selling my 4K player it cost me about £100).

So you're ok with upgrading to play the same games slightly (very slightly when we're talking the jump from base PS4 to Pro, it must be the smallest jump between two consoles ever) improved. So I'm not sure what yours or Bob's issue is here.

Like, "I only buy consoles if they have something revolutionary that literally can't be done until now" doesn't apply to you.

Not really. I just buy shit and inevitably don’t play them as much as I should. I’m in a position where I can generally afford it. And with both consoles neither cost full whack as I sold stuff to get em. PS4 for the Pro. 4K dvd for the X.

Anyway. I’m bowing out of this convo.

I’ve made my point clear that I think this strategy is flawed (imo). When I heard about the specs I hoped MS could really give Sony a run for their money and maybe they can. But don’t think they are helping theirselves with this approach.

Paul the sparky

RedDave2 wrote:

And while I get the point being made about the X and PS4 Pro, these machines came out midway in the lifespan of the consoles. The Xbox one was 3 years old when the X came out and both are still classed as 8th gen. This is the start of the 9th gen so its a bit different.

How? If you're happy to buy a new console to play slightly shinier versions of the same games available on your existing system, what is the difference here? Why wouldn't you still be happy?

LivDiv

I think the key point from Microsoft's pov is that this won't be the 9th gen, there won't really be gens anymore. Just a consistent cycle of hardware releases that support the Xbox platform at various levels.
They want people to use their digital store front because that is where the money is.

Console sales are good because they tie people into that but they will be just as happy if you buy the game (or other shit) from their store on your PC, or on your One S or Series X.

RamSteelwood

A plus with this method is you could trade your current xbox in against the new one, the old one will prob have more value, and you're not cutting yourself off from your existing games immediately.
For me a new console usually takes the physical space of the old one which gets boxed, so you end up with only 1 or 2 new games to play and a bunch of under played existing games that you never go back to.

Bob

LivDiv wrote:

I think the key point from Microsoft's pov is that this won't be the 9th gen, there won't really be gens anymore. Just a consistent cycle of hardware releases that support the Xbox platform at various levels. They want people to use their digital store front because that is where the money is. Console sales are good because they tie people into that but they will be just as happy if you buy the game (or other shit) from their store on your PC, or on your One S or Series X.

This is the best argument I’ve heard.

pantyfire

Think of it as iPads or iPhones and the appstore.

RedDave2

pantyfire wrote:

Think of it as iPads or iPhones and the appstore.

Sort of. I think people upgrade their phones to have the latest model. Some upgrade their consoles only when a specific game comes out (for me it was rdr2)

Paul the sparky wrote:

RedDave2 wrote:

And while I get the point being made about the X and PS4 Pro, these machines came out midway in the lifespan of the consoles. The Xbox one was 3 years old when the X came out and both are still classed as 8th gen. This is the start of the 9th gen so its a bit different.

How? If you're happy to buy a new console to play slightly shinier versions of the same games available on your existing system, what is the difference here? Why wouldn't you still be happy?

The xbox one x and the ps4 pro are clearly labelled as enhanced versions of the existing base models. The series x and the ps5 are new machines (or at least, that's what I thought)

For me (and I'm only using this analogy for the tech side of things) the ps4 Pro or Pro x was like the Sega CD or 32 x (albeit not exactly the same) were as the ps5/ series x should be like the saturn

Bob wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

I think the key point from Microsoft's pov is that this won't be the 9th gen, there won't really be gens anymore. Just a consistent cycle of hardware releases that support the Xbox platform at various levels. They want people to use their digital store front because that is where the money is. Console sales are good because they tie people into that but they will be just as happy if you buy the game (or other shit) from their store on your PC, or on your One S or Series X.

This is the best argument I’ve heard.

I'm starting to think this will be the Ms model. I think it could hurt the sales of the series x though, which could damage the overall brand.

Paul the sparky

The 32X and Mega CD had exclusive games, didn't they?

So your analogy doesn't work, as the Pro and X don't have any exclusive games. Yet people happily bought them to play exactly the same games with a bump in performance.

RedDave2

I was just using them as an example of the tech jump.

I can accept that people bought pro and x just for better performance but I think people buying ps5 and series x will expect some stuff that couldn't be done before. It's part of the selling point of most new consoles and ultimately that's where I think Ms May have gone slightly wrong here. Time will tell I guess.

poprock

When FH4 arrived at the same time as the BoneX, I bought both because I wanted to play FH4 at its best.

Other people think that way too, or our master race brethren wouldn’t upgrade their PCs all the time.

EvilRedEye

It's kinda easy to forget with Xbox being popular on here that it didn't do particularly well as a console platform this gen and ideally they'd be growing rather than just maintaining their existing audience. OK, certain people have spent a long time in the Xbox ecosystem but that doesn't mean anything to a generation of young people who've grown up with PlayStation and need to be persuaded to jump ship.

RedDave2

I'd be curious how pro/ x sales are going relating tops4/ bone. They all seem to be lumped in but I'm guessing neither fully over took the base model which (to me anyway) suggests that just improved graphics isn't the main reason the average customer needs to invest in the higher priced system.

Diluted Dante

Old article, but all I could find. In June 2017, the Pro was accounting for 1 in 5 sales. Sales could of course have increased, or fallen off a cliff by now, but it seems likely the base models are still the main sellers.

GurtTractor

Regarding early PS4 and Xbox One titles not being a big leap over 360/PS3; something that's been been missed is that the leap in CPU performance between those gens wasn't very big, the kind of games that could be made were fairly similar. Think GTA5 working quite well on 360 and PS3, and having a bit more population density in the subsequent generation.

Comparatively, the leap with current machines and PS5/Xbox SX is much greater in terms of raw CPU power, and the leap in storage performance is dramatic too.

I think one of the reasons I'm so hopeful about the next gen's CPUs is that modern PC CPUs are generally so underutilised in most games. It's very rare that I see anything above 30% usage, it's often at or below 15%. That's a ton of available computation getting left on the table, it makes sense from the perspective of devs making their games working on older hardware, but with consoles you have that benefit of a fixed set of components to work with and utilise to the max.

It's reckoned that the next consoles will both have 8 cores running at a base clock of at least 3 GHz, based on the latest Zen 2 architecture which has great IPC. So that will actually be quite similar to what I have in my PC. That means the next gen will have a massive amount of available power, and if fully utilised by devs we could see stuff that is not even being attempted on PCs right now. That's why I'm so excited by the prospect of new consoles pushing things forward.

Whether developers actually take full advantage any time soon is another matter, I would bet 90% of new games will be fairly conservative.

hunk

The only reason the Pro/X models exist are to keep up with speedy pc developments in hw. The main difference is resolution bumps with the upgraded consoles. Graphical feature sets get determined at the start of the gen and depend on the gfx api (Vulkan/DX) version supported.

Backwards compatibility is a given and will be baked into the new consoles.
PS is apparently going for hw chiplet trickery and xbox will probably opt for a software dx12 style solution?
And yes, you'll probably be able to take your library with you to your new console when you upgrade. A bit like pc then.

Like Gurt mentioned, Next gen will be quite a bigger bump than the previous one mainly due to faster ssd storage, more ram and the new speedy zen2 architecture from amd.

g.man

I'd wager the main reason the Pro/X models exist is for Sony to sell everyone 4K tv sets.

poprock

Not so! Samsung sell quite a lot too.

g.man

Samsung don't have an ailing tv division they can prop up with their successful console division tho...

hunk

Touche, gman!

Moot_Geeza

"Microsoft have no games!"
"Yes we do, we've got loads coming out now, and you won't even have to buy a new machine to play them just yet".
"Booo!"

Lord_Griff

Nowt like a new console war to bring out the bell ringing, sandwich board clad lunatics.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories