The B&B Writers Thread
  • Sure. Well it's been a long and painful road just to get to this point! I went to the national film school about seven years ago to do a screenwriting masters. When I graduated I landed a Coming Up on Channel 4 which is their scheme for new writers and directors, a one off half hour drama. That got me my first broadcast credit and that helped me to get an agent. I've been developing a bunch of feature film projects since then, one of them (which I've been writing on and off for about six years) is hopefully going to go into production this year.

    While all that's been going on I've been trying to get comedy projects off the ground too. I was selected for a BAFTA scheme back in 2013 that took five writers to the New York TV Festival to have their scripts performed on stage. One of the judges from that scheme was from a UK production company and ended up commissioning something else from me that ended up being Pumped, the sitcom pilot I did for BBC3.
  • Read it all now. It's great stuff, definitely can't wait to see this finished.
  • Cheers, DD (if that was directed at me). Hopefully I can actually maintain for once in my life and get through the whole thing.

    That's all very interesting, Scout. I've never tried to write anything for stage/tv/film but know a couple of chaps who have - Though they've certainly not had the successes you've had so far. Very well done.
  • It was at you. It's good.
  • Cheers, DD (if that was directed at me). Hopefully I can actually maintain for once in my life and get through the whole thing. That's all very interesting, Scout. I've never tried to write anything for stage/tv/film but know a couple of chaps who have - Though they've certainly not had the successes you've had so far. Very well done.

    Thanks Tiger. Can I ask what sort of word count you're aiming for with your novel? It's something I was kinda struggling with. I know the length of a novel can obviously vary greatly but for a while I struggled to find any info on average word count. Ended up reading around 80-100K is about standard. 

    Writing screenplays you know exactly what page count to aim for. Not so with novels. I miss having that sort of guideline. I did end up finding this website which lists the word count of a lot of famous novels.
  • With academic books, keeping it shorter increases chances of publication, apparently, simply because it'll cost less to produce. I'd assume that goes for fiction too - more likely to get a 70k book accepted than a 100k book, at least if it's your first.
  • acemuzzy
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    I'm still 69k short. Shiiiit.
  • 80k is about right for most genres. Fantasy/Sci-Fi generally go longer, up to 100k or just over (likely not much higher for a debut author). YA comes in around 60k or a bit longeer and books for younger kids go anything from 10 words to 40k, depending on age.

    I'm loosely aiming for 80-90k on a first draft and then to reassess. It's YA fantasy I suppose so that would probably not be far off where I want to get to. Very hard to gauge as I struggle to outline terribly well.
  • Raiziel
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    Hmmm...looks like I'm going to come in at around thirty thousand for my children's story.

    Tiger, is this your first proper attempt at a novel?
    Get schwifty.
  • Heh, no. 

    I've had a few fairly weak efforts over the last few years that have never gone past 10-15k. This is the farthest I have got and I've planned - in broad strokes - much of the book. The first 2/3 at any rate. I've decided that I'm going to finish the story even if I hate it and I'm not going to buy any games until a first draft is done.
  • cockbeard
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    Hahaha, I see that game starvation appears to be THE motivational tool of 2017
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Raiziel
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    How goes the novel, Tiger?
    Get schwifty.
  • It goes. Well, not at the moment it doesn't.

    I did get into  rhythm of knocking out 500-700 words every day or two but work has been pretty full on and with Tigercub I've found it difficult. I have the time if I'm honest but I've been using it to play games and haven't written for a fortnight or something now. Damn.

    I really should start submitting some of my shorts again. I think I have some good ones that I haven't sold yet but after a few rejections I'm not sure where to send them. Felt a bit foolish after - in a bout of frustration - selling a story to a shitty market after it came close to selling at some good placesl and I don't want to sell to lower tiers if I can hit high or mid.
  • Raiziel
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    Chapter six complete.  Which means I'm at the halfway point.  Part Two is proving to be longer and more difficult than I expected.  The first part of Chapter Five, long imagined, was tough to render in words and will need a lot of work get right.  I'm dreading Chapter Seven, which I suspect might be the longest and most difficult part of the entire book.
    Get schwifty.
  • Good stuff. Just keep on plodding.
  • Good stuff. Just keep on plotting.

    Come with g if you want to live...
  • Raiziel
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    Thanks chaps.  I'm not going to have any prose worth sharing for a good while yet, though I do have a couple "songs" sung by Polydora during The Scarlet Maiden that are complete.  If you have any criticism I'd welcome it.

    Winter sun in ghostly sky
    Cold it's light on swaying rye
    This land is mine to care and till
    This land is mine through winters chill

    Then came a fire from the south
    A wretched beast with flaming mouth
    This land was mine to fend and keep
    This land was mine though now I weep

    The beast did chew upon the land
    And smote the trees like firebrands
    That land was mine now long ago
    Where fire reigns there should be snow

    That one came together very quickly, and while mostly just a ditty it does contain some small foreshadowing of the very end of part three.

    Girl upon a mountain 
    Gazing at the sky
    Girl upon a mountain 
    Wishing she could fly

    That girl upon the mountain 
    She planned to take a trip
    She hammered through the night and day
    And built a silver ship

    That girl's not on the mountain now 
    She left this afternoon 
    She sailed across a sea of stars
    And fell upon the moon

    This one is actually really important to the wider story.  If I ever write the second book we'll meet that girl, and if I ever write the third and final book we'll visit that mountain.  There are also clues locked away in there as to my main character's origins and also the second books title.

    If there is something rubbish up there please tell, because right now I don't have any other sounding board.
    Get schwifty.
  • Glad to see you're cracking on, Raiz!

    Before commenting, I must say that I generally dislike songs/poems in text and find them irritating. This hasn't stopped me trying to add one in to a short story myself, but I tend to skim them if I see them in a text. I think this stems from Lord of the Rings.

    However...

    This is a children's story, right? It reads well in that context, to me. I particularly like the 'hammered through the night and day, And built a silver ship' part. I like pared down writing (or a particular kind) and 'empty' parts that leave the reader to fill in blanks. Silver ship evokes a lot, for me.

    Winter's chill or Winters chill? Depends what you're saying. The chill of a/the Winter or the chill from many winters? 

    There's nothing that strikes me as awful in there. But, like I say, I generally skip or skim these things in books!
  • I adore Thomas Pynchon but I can't be fucked with the hundreds of songs he puts in his books either.
  • Raiziel
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    Thanks for the feedback, Tiger. Believe it or not I'm not overfond of songs in text myself. I was quite surprised when I got to a particular part in chapter six where a couple were actually required as a device to move the story along. So important have they now become that I've had to give the Greek Oceanid Polydora some of the qualities of a siren to make it work. I've purposefully kept them short and will, I think, only need two more in a story that's probably going to hit forty thousand words. So hopefully they won't get in the way too much.
    Get schwifty.
  • I'm not much one for songs in prose either but I liked your song, Raiz! I found it very evocative. 

    I've been plodding along with my novel too and have managed to breach 50,000 words which feels like a bit of a landmark. Before, getting to around 80/90K felt insurmountable. Now I feel pretty good about powering on towards the end. Whether it's any good is of course another matter.
  • Raiziel
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    That's brilliant, Scout! Congratulations on reaching such a hefty milestone.
    Get schwifty.
  • Hitting 50k is no mean feat. Well done, Scout!

    I've found a bit of love for words again and am writing a hugely derivative short story centred on a North Korean invasion of South Korea, featuring giant centipedes, walls bleeding tar, everyone's teeth falling out and so on. It's trash at the moment in first draft form but it might be good eventually! I'm hopeful!

    Here's a part that was fun to write. Likely a bit lacking in sharpness and quite deliberately fashioned SO IT'S MEANT TO BE PURPLE OK. It needs battering into shape quite badly still.
    Spoiler:
  • Raiziel
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    I like that, but...have you abandoned the novel?
    Get schwifty.
  • No, though I'm struggling to push forward with it.

    This is one of my all too regular 'fuck it, let's go self indulgence mode' breaks from it.
  • Dark Soldier
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    That's cool, tiger. Creates a setting of a beast-strewn world without being overly in-depth. Allusion is good.

    Not been in here a while but a question, I don't know if any of you have faced it:

    How do you write a story which is based around a job/world you have zero experience of? I know research is the key but I'd have to put in a ton just to have a grip on what I want to write (music production, if you wish to know).

    Had an idea floating around for a long while based around a tune and the horrors it could reap on the world, but to describe that tune being made is gonna be a ballache.
  • I think it depends on the role. Some you can have a pretty good stab at, others it's far harder.

    In your shoes I'd do a little research (not much, because dull), have a go at writing it how I thought it should go, and then find a friend/acquaintance who does know the job and ask them to tell me where I was wrong and why.

    Fullspec might be a good shout. Or Billy Lologram.

    Regarding the above, I've amalgamated it into something else I'd written. Will share soon.

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